Buffalo Bills Talk

On May 20, 9:29 am, "Geoff" wrote:
> Kountzeguy wrote:
> > They had the same talent last year.Edwards had
> > the better stats.
>
> Statistically insignificant difference.

Huge difference.Sacks and turnovers are the biggest stats from
QBs.Edwards
was so much better in these two stats.


>
>
>
>
>
> >> Are you talking about last year? Come on, the meat of the season was
> >> in the first three weeks. Losman sucked. How did Edwards fare
> >> against any playoff caliber teams? Let's see...New England - he
> >> sucked *...Dallas - he sucked *...Washington - he did very
> >> well...Cleveland - he sucked *...Giants he sucked *.
>
> > Yes I am talking about last year.Look at the stats.The two QBs played
> > almost the same amount of plays.Edwards had better stats.He didn't
> > play
> > well in some games.That's going to happen.He has to improve alot to
> > make this a better team.JP played just as bad agaisnt playoff teams
> > as
> > well.Im not sure what your point is?Do you think Losman is better
> > then
> > Edwards?Do you think Edwards is as sucky as Losman because they
> > have the same kinda stats?
>
> No, and this has always been my point. Some (specifically the resident
> lunatic, Bender) were calling Losman a premier NFL QB last year. I offered
> my skepticism. Losman failed thus validating that skepticism. Edwards did
> even less in 2007 than Losman did in 2006 and yet I am still hearing the
> same * that Trent is the man. It's deja vu all over again. I am just
> expressing my skepticism...again. Edwards hasn't shown me jack *.

I have never said Trent was the man.He has to prove it to me on the
field.I think he has the skill to give him a shot for 2 or 3 more
years and see what he can do.I think Edwards has alot of skills that
Losman doesn't.I'm 100% sure Edwards will be a better QB then
Losman.Just not sure if Edwards will be a stud QB yet.I think he has
the physical tools to do it,but does he have the drive to put in the
work in the offseason to get better?We will see.


>
> Losman sucks. And unless I am completely mistaken, Tred isn't the answer
> either. Even if he is more talented, he's not durable. Heck, he hasn't had a
> complete season without injury since Pop Warner.
>
> >> Against the Jets he sucked * and Losman came in and saved his
> >> bacon. Yet that still gets chalked up as a Tred win. If you think
> >> that Tred acquitted himself any better than Losman last year, you're
> >> fooling yourself.
>
> > I do think that Edwards acquitted himself way better then Losman.Being
> > that he didn't turn the ball over and get sacked liked Losman did.The
> > big
> > factor here is ummmmmmmm EDWARDS WAS A ROOKIE!!!!!!! I would't
> > say Edwards had a good year if he was say a 4th year vet.But for a
> > rookie
> > it was a decent season.I have seen much much worse rookie seasons from
> > QB's.
>
> That's all well and good. What choice do we have but to try and develop the
> guy? None. The Bills looked for a bargain in the draft and let's see if it
> pays off. Hopefully, it will pan out better than the umpteen other bargains
> the Bills go after that blow up in their faces (notably in management). One
> thing's for sure, though, the fan faithful have not gotten their fill of
> this dumpster diving for the most part. I have.

We had a choice to draft a guy.I agree with the rest.


>
> >> So, who's going to be the backup for Tred if it's not Losman? I may
> >> as well suit up. Maybe we can get Uncle Rico?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > He can be replaced very easy by your average backup.
>
> WE DON'T HAVE AN AVERAGE BACKUP. So...if not Losman, who is your backup?- Hide quoted text -

I will give you a name before the season.

Colddays99@gmail.com wrote:
> On May 20, 9:29 am, "Geoff" wrote:
>> Kountzeguy wrote:
>>> They had the same talent last year.Edwards had
>>> the better stats.
>>
>> Statistically insignificant difference.
>
> Huge difference.Sacks and turnovers are the biggest stats from
> QBs.Edwards
> was so much better in these two stats.

Sorry...no.

Tred JP Advantage
Completion % 56.1 63.4 JP
Yards/att 6.1 6.6 edge JP
Int% 3.0 3.4 edge Tred
QBR 70.4 76.9 edge JP
YPG 163 151 edge Tred
Sack% 4.3 7.4 Tred
Adj Net Yds/att 4.4 4.6 edge JP

So on the stats you chose, Tred is clearly better on one, sacks. But
consider that 9 of JPs 14 sacks were in three games against division winners
Pittsburgh and New England. 6 of Tred's 12 were in two games against
division winners Dallas and New England. That's three per game for both.

If that's what you mean by "so much better", then I humbly disagree.

> I have never said Trent was the man.He has to prove it to me on the
> field.I think he has the skill to give him a shot for 2 or 3 more
> years and see what he can do.I think Edwards has alot of skills that
> Losman doesn't.I'm 100% sure Edwards will be a better QB then
> Losman.Just not sure if Edwards will be a stud QB yet.

I agree with everything you said above.

> I think he has
> the physical tools to do it,but does he have the drive to put in the
> work in the offseason to get better?We will see.

This is where Losman failed. He had his chance after 2006 to show that he
was going to be committed to excellence. It was his one big chance. It only
comes around once. What does he do? He wings off to Mexico with some buds to
play beach football and band senoritas. And his big chance evaporated right
there.


>> WE DON'T HAVE AN AVERAGE BACKUP.
>> So...if not Losman, who is your backup?
>
> I will give you a name before the season.

What? And let the Bills beat you to it?

On May 22, 10:06 am, "Geoff" wrote:
> Coldday...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On May 20, 9:29 am, "Geoff" wrote:
> >> Kountzeguy wrote:
> >>> They had the same talent last year.Edwards had
> >>> the better stats.
>
> >> Statistically insignificant difference.
>
> > Huge difference.Sacks and turnovers are the biggest stats from
> > QBs.Edwards
> > was so much better in these two stats.
>
> Sorry...no.
>
>                             Tred             JP            Advantage
> Completion %       56.1           63.4               JP
> Yards/att                6.1             6.6              edge JP
> Int%                       3.0             3.4              edge Tred
> QBR                     70.4           76.9             edge JP
> YPG                    163             151              edge Tred
> Sack%                  4.3              7.4                Tred
> Adj Net Yds/att    4.4              4.6              edge JP

>
> So on the stats you chose, Tred is clearly better on one, sacks. But
> consider that 9 of JPs 14 sacks were in three games against division winners
> Pittsburgh and New England. 6 of Tred's 12 were in two games against
> division winners Dallas and New England. That's three per game for both.

Thank you for making my point for me.All the stats are pretty close
except for sacks and turnovers.The sack diffrence is huge!JP takes a
ton of sacks.He
has his entire career in college and the pros.If he would have started
all 16 games he would have ended with 30plus atleast,maybe even 40.JP
fumbled the ball 5 times last year and lost it 2 times.Edwards fumbled
4 times and didn't lose the ball.The INT stat is even.


>
> If that's what you mean by "so much better", then I humbly disagree.

You want to break the stats down game to game.I could do the same with
Edwards having INTs in the Dallas game.That just seems to be a cop
out
to me.Looking at the stats if both played the entire season,a rookie
name
Trent Edwards would give us a better chance to win then a 4th year vet
named JP Losman.Less sacks,less turnovers equal more wins in the NFL.
The rest of the stats are even do you get this?


>
> > I have never said Trent was the man.He has to prove it to me on the
> > field.I think he has the skill to give him a shot for 2 or 3 more
> > years and see what he can do.I think Edwards has alot of skills that
> > Losman doesn't.I'm 100% sure Edwards will be a better QB then
> > Losman.Just not sure if Edwards will be a stud QB yet.
>
> I agree with everything you said above.
>
> > I think he has
> > the physical tools to do it,but does he have the drive to put in the
> > work in the offseason to get better?We will see.
>
> This is where Losman failed. He had his chance after 2006 to show that he
> was going to be committed to excellence. It was his one big chance. It only
> comes around once. What does he do? He wings off to Mexico with some buds to
> play beach football and band senoritas. And his big chance evaporated right
> there.




>
> >> WE DON'T HAVE AN AVERAGE BACKUP.
> >> So...if not Losman, who is your backup?
>
> > I will give you a name before the season.
>
> What? And let the Bills beat you to it?

No because I don't see anyone out there right now.But there will be
before the season starts.

Colddays99@gmail.com wrote:

>> If that's what you mean by "so much better", then I humbly disagree.
>
> Trent Edwards would give us a better chance to win then a 4th year vet
> named JP Losman.Less sacks,less turnovers equal more wins in the NFL.
> The rest of the stats are even do you get this?

Yeah...but you are missing my point. I am not arguing *for* JP. He sucks.
Tred is the starter. No problem. I just think he needs to prove he can do
it. For my money, he showed brief flashes of capability intersperced with
long stretches of rookie. Nothing extraordinary.

Colddays99@gmail.com wrote in
news:614dc735-cc76-423d-a278-049dabde1fa7@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:


> No because I don't see anyone out there right now.

Then you just negated your argument. If there is no viable back up out
there right now, then why get rid of your only viable BU you have right
now?


> But there will be
> before the season starts.

Unless you can see the future, you *hope* there will be.




Night

On May 26, 1:28 am, "Geoff" wrote:
> Coldday...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> If that's what you mean by "so much better", then I humbly disagree.
>
> > Trent Edwards would give us a better chance to win then a 4th year vet
> > named JP Losman.Less sacks,less turnovers equal more wins in the NFL.
> > The rest of the stats are even do you get this?
>
> Yeah...but you are missing my point. I am not arguing *for* JP. He sucks.
> Tred is the starter. No problem. I just think he needs to prove he can do
> it. For my money, he showed brief flashes of capability intersperced with
> long stretches of rookie. Nothing extraordinary.

He needs to prove that to me and everyone.You were saying JP Losman
played the same as Edwards.When that wasn't the case.I agree he showed
flashes then played like a rookie.That's what 99% of rookie years
are.I like
how the team brought him along.They got him to manage the game for
the
most part.It's hard to get a rookie to do that.They keep it simple and
I think
that will help in giving him some confidence.They should open up the
playbook more next year.Slowly work him up and see what he does well.
No reason to go crazy with the guy early in the year.We should have a
defense that can keep us in games.Takes more chances but not so many
were the turnovers come.

On May 26, 6:46 pm, night wrote:
> Coldday...@gmail.com wrote innews:614dc735-cc76-423d-a278-049dabde1fa7@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
>
> > No because I don't see anyone out there right now.
>
> Then you just negated your argument. If there is no viable back up out
> there right now, then why get rid of your only viable BU you have right
> now?

Show me a list dude and I will give you some names of guys the same as
JP.
My point was waiting for someone better then Losman.Tho I bet there
are a few
out there right now better then JP.


>
> > But there will be
> > before the season starts.
>
> Unless you can see the future, you *hope* there will be.

No you way overrate JP Losman.That's your problem.It will not be hard
at
all to replace him.Craig Nall is better then JP Losman.

>
> Night

Kountzeguy wrote:

>> Yeah...but you are missing my point. I am not arguing *for* JP. He
>> sucks. Tred is the starter. No problem. I just think he needs to
>> prove he can do it. For my money, he showed brief flashes of
>> capability intersperced with long stretches of rookie. Nothing
>> extraordinary.
>
> He needs to prove that to me and everyone.You were saying JP Losman
> played the same as Edwards.

*sigh* No I didn't. I questioned your claim that Edwards played "much
better". He didn't. He gets the rookie pass. I get it.

What I object to is the claim by some that the rookie showed any compelling
signs that he will be the next quarterback to do anything for the Bills. I
am merely being skeptical. And I further object to any reference to the
rookie years of Favre or whomever as any kind of indication about Tred's
ability. That's a logical fallacy.

To paraphrase Sagan: "But the fact that some great quarterbacks were
ordinary early in their careers does not imply that all quarterbacks who are
ordinary early in their careers are great quarterbacks. Favre was ordinary,
Young was ordinary, Manning was ordinary. But Ryan Leaf was ordinary too."

Kountzeguy wrote:
> On May 26, 6:46 pm, night wrote:
>> Coldday...@gmail.com wrote
>> innews:614dc735-cc76-423d-a278-049dabde1fa7@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> No because I don't see anyone out there right now.
>>
>> Then you just negated your argument. If there is no viable back up
>> out
>> there right now, then why get rid of your only viable BU you have
>> right
>> now?
>
> Show me a list dude and I will give you some names of guys the same as
> JP.
> My point was waiting for someone better then Losman.Tho I bet there
> are a few
> out there right now better then JP.
>
>
>>
>>> But there will be
>>> before the season starts.
>>
>> Unless you can see the future, you *hope* there will be.
>
> No you way overrate JP Losman.That's your problem.It will not be hard
> at
> all to replace him.Craig Nall is better then JP Losman.

Dubious though compelling. He's only had significant playing time in one
season (other than NFL Europe) since senior year HS in 1996. In six
professional seasons, Nall has thrown a grand total of 48 passes. But, your
point is taken. Nall is probably the best quarterback still available which
says more for what's available than for Nall. Let's see if the Bills make a
move. They know his capability. That doesn't bode well for Nall.

http://walterfootball.com/free2008QB.php

Kountzeguy wrote in
news:fe9192fa-6984-4a58-8d85-cf8f005a70f2@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

> On May 26, 6:46 pm, night wrote:
>> Coldday...@gmail.com wrote
>> innews:614dc735-cc76-423d-a278-049dabde1fa7@s50
> g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > No because I don't see anyone out there right now.
>>
>> Then you just negated your argument. If there is no viable back up
>> out there right now, then why get rid of your only viable BU you have
>> right now?
>
> Show me a list dude and I will give you some names of guys the same as
> JP.
> My point was waiting for someone better then Losman.Tho I bet there
> are a few
> out there right now better then JP.

Why do I have to create the list? I am not the one who thinks JP cannot be
a viable BU (at least for the time being).

You need to supply the list. Geoff even asked for one (at least a name).
If not JP, then who?

>> > But there will be
>> > before the season starts.
>>
>> Unless you can see the future, you *hope* there will be.
>
> No you way overrate JP Losman.That's your problem.It will not be hard
> at
> all to replace him.Craig Nall is better then JP Losman.

I am not overrating JP. Nobody posting to this NG is.
All I am saying (and maybe Geoff is too) as of *right now* (May 2008) JP
Losman is the best option as the Bills BU QB. That could change tomorrow,
next week, next month, or during training camp. But until that time, JP is
the choice.

As for Craig Nall, he is so good the Bills cut him twice, and in both
instances opted to keep JP.



Night