Buffalo Bills Talk

On May 15, 8:59 am, "Geoff" wrote:
> Kountzeguy wrote:
> >> As opposed to being backed up by a guy who started one year for a
> >> second-rate Div I school and who has never taken a snap in anger in
> >> the bigs?
>
> > You continue to keep thinking I want Backer to be the back up.I have
> > not one time said that he should be.
>
> No, I did not mean to imply that at all. It was an honest question. If not
> Losman, then who? As of now, it's either Hamdan or Baker. Neither are fit to
> even hold a clipboard.

Who,will be someone that is cut later on.

>
> >> I respectfully disagree. It would be a step back for JP to start,
> >> but it will be a step over the cliff if Baker gets even a snap where
> >> the Bills don't have a three score lead.
>
> > That's why we need a backup QB.Neither is the answer.I would like to
> > see Baker in the preseason tho.
>
> You may. It's not likely. One wonders what you are hoping for. He was a high
> school standout and barely worth a mention in the storied annals of UNC
> football...comprising exactly three paragraphs. ;-)
>
> Seriously, UNC is not a place to play football. He went there to play lax.
> Heck, UNC hasn't even bothered to update his bio to include his senior year,
> the only year he started. What do you suppose that implies? LOLhttp://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/baker_matt00.html


I don't think it implies anything.I think good players can be on bad
teams.I
have no idea how Baker plays.I have never seen him take one snap.I
think he has a very low chance on even making the team.That being said
I would give him a shot in preseason.Can't hurt to give a guy
shot,little as it maybe.QBs can come from bad teams or small football
schools.

>
> Excuse me, but what the * does Trent Edwards have to do with JP vs.
> Big Ben/Eli Manning/Rivers/Schaub?



Trent Edwards doesn't have a thing to do with any of them.JP has to do
alot with them.Being that he was drafted in the same draft.Im pointing
out why JP is one of the worst picks in Bills history.You seem not to
believe it was a bad draft
pick.When we could have moved up and got either one of these guys.We
would have gave up the same amount moving up as we did moving back
into
round one to get Losman.We just wouldn't have Lee Evans.

On May 14, 10:08 pm, night wrote:
> Kountzeguy wrote innews:846df9f9-41b2-4186-be56-00acc7cdf1a3@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > You think just because he said this,means he is happy with the
> > situation?
>
> I never said he was "happy" with the situation. Being unhappy and
> causing a problem are two different things.

You think I'm saying being a cancer means causing problems.When
that's
not what I mean.He will not have his heart in it.He will not be
helping Edwards
the way a vet QB that wanted to be the back up would.He will say and
do all the right things but he will have a chip on his shoulder.Every
one on the team will know and that will take away some what from him
and the team.


>
> > This is a guy that's very *.When he was drafted he said he was
> > better
> > then the other QB's drafted that year.The point is how is he going to
> > act.
> > Not if he is going to fulfill his contract.He has to fulfill it.
>
> Nobody is holding a gun to his head demanding he fulfill his contract.
> If he really was going to be a problem child, he could stomp his feet,
> refuse to report for the OTA's, and refuse to play. He has done none of
> this.

His career as QB in the NFL is up to his head.He has to fulfill it no
matter
what.He showed his real feelings last year when he said he wanted out.
He seen the interest was very very low in him around the leauge.So he
came back with his tail between his legs.Clearly he still has the same
feelings is his mind as he did last year.I think that will effect
him.You
can tell when someone isn't happy and is just showing up.


>
> > He has
> > no where else
> > to go.If anyone wanted him he would have been traded.
>
> I disagree. This has been discussed before. JP has one year left on his
> contract. Why would a team give up ANYTHING to acquire a player they can
> probably acquire next year, and give up NOTHING.
>
> > Even worse a guy
> > forced to do something he doesn't want to do.To me I would rather have
> > someone that really wants to be there.
>
> That concept could apply to over half of the players in the league. How
> many "back up" players in the NFL are thrilled to be where they are at?
>
> Heck, even Frank Reich wanted the chance to be a starter.
>
>
>
>
>
> > If both of you guys don't think negative people effect teams,you have
> > never watched football.Jeremy Shockey and Chad Johnson just to name a
> > few.
>
> Did Shockey and Johnson ever point to a game and publically declare that
> contest was a make or break game for them? Then get benched because they
> broke, and they admitted to breaking?

No because both of them are talented and uselly play well in big
games.
Every game Losman called a must when or a make or break game he lost
badly.But Johnson has said he wanted out of town.So has JP Losman.
That effects teams and how teammates look at you.Why is this guy here
when he doesn't want to be?Is his heart really into it?Im sure his
teammates
will see him differently.

Kountzeguy wrote in
news:12eea2c0-c6e6-4a0e-a0c0-1d74804211df@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:



> You think I'm saying being a cancer means causing problems.When
> that's
> not what I mean.He will not have his heart in it.He will not be
> helping Edwards
> the way a vet QB that wanted to be the back up would.He will say and
> do all the right things but he will have a chip on his shoulder.Every
> one on the team will know and that will take away some what from him
> and the team.

Well, first I would not want a back up QB that *wants* to be a back up. As
I said before, even Frank Reich, the consumate back up QB, wanted the
opportunity to start, and he left Buffalo when that opportunity presented
itself.

Secondly, while I think I finally understand your 'cancer' definition, I
will disagree with regards to Losman for multiple reasons.

One: This is Losman's last year. He is not stupid. He knows if he plays
nice, plays the part like he is supposed to, he will gain more interest
from other teams. Now, if he had 2-3 years left on his contract, I might be
more inclined to think your way.

Two: Again, JP could have skipped the optional OTA, but he has not.

Three: IIRC, JP and his agent have expressed JP's desire to leave *once*. I
am not saying he has changed his mind, but he did essentially say 'I want
"A", and if I cannot get "A", I will do "B". End of discussion.' This is
unlike the players you listed and others like T. Owens, TKO Spikes, and
Corey Dillion who constantly and consistently stated they wanted out.


Night

Kountzeguy wrote:
> On May 15, 9:01 am, "Geoff" wrote:
>> Kountzeguy wrote:
>>> Looking at the stats here.Edwards is way better in every stat except
>>> TDs
>>> in his first year as a starter.(compared to Losman's first
>>> year)Don't forget Losman sat a year and learned the offense before
>>> this.Edwards didn't and
>>> still has the better stats.
>>
>> Comparing Edwards to Losman is like comparing an AMC Pacer to a
>> Yugo. What's the point?
>
> The point is that your guys keeping saying Losman has had no talent to
> work with.I posted the stats to show you that a rookie did more with
> the same talent JP Losman had.So that excuse can no longer be made.

Please..."the same talent"?...when JP was a rook, the Bills had the Three
Stooges and their little sister for an OL.

Are you talking about last year? Come on, the meat of the season was in the
first three weeks. Losman sucked. How did Edwards fare against any playoff
caliber teams? Let's see...New England - he sucked *...Dallas - he sucked
*...Washington - he did very well...Cleveland - he sucked *...Giants he
sucked *.

Against the Jets he sucked * and Losman came in and saved his bacon. Yet
that still gets chalked up as a Tred win. If you think that Tred acquitted
himself any better than Losman last year, you're fooling yourself.

All this is quite beside the point since I fully concede that JP is a bust.
Last year at this time, people here were touting him as a "top-tier" QB and
I called *. Now I'm hearing the same * * * and from some
of the same * people. It's utterly comical.

So, who's going to be the backup for Tred if it's not Losman? I may as well
suit up. Maybe we can get Uncle Rico?

On May 18, 10:22 pm, "Geoff" wrote:
> Kountzeguy wrote:
> > On May 15, 9:01 am, "Geoff" wrote:
> >> Kountzeguy wrote:
> >>> Looking at the stats here.Edwards is way better in every stat except
> >>> TDs
> >>> in his first year as a starter.(compared to Losman's first
> >>> year)Don't forget Losman sat a year and learned the offense before
> >>> this.Edwards didn't and
> >>> still has the better stats.
>
> >> Comparing Edwards to Losman is like comparing an AMC Pacer to a
> >> Yugo. What's the point?
>
> > The point is that your guys keeping saying Losman has had no talent to
> > work with.I posted the stats to show you that a rookie did more with
> > the same talent  JP Losman had.So that excuse can no longer be made.
>
> Please..."the same talent"?...when JP was a rook, the Bills had the Three
> Stooges and their little sister for an OL.

First of Losman sat his rookie year.I didn't say that Losman had the
same
kinda talent when he started his first year.Just stating that Edwards
had a better first year of starting then did Losman and he didn't get
to sit a year
and learn the offense.They had the same talent last year.Edwards had
the
better stats.


>
> Are you talking about last year? Come on, the meat of the season was in the
> first three weeks. Losman sucked. How did Edwards fare against any playoff
> caliber teams? Let's see...New England - he sucked *...Dallas - he sucked
> *...Washington - he did very well...Cleveland - he sucked *...Giants he
> sucked *.

Yes I am talking about last year.Look at the stats.The two QBs played
almost the same amount of plays.Edwards had better stats.He didn't
play
well in some games.That's going to happen.He has to improve alot to
make this a better team.JP played just as bad agaisnt playoff teams
as
well.Im not sure what your point is?Do you think Losman is better
then
Edwards?Do you think Edwards is as sucky as Losman because they
have the same kinda stats?


>
> Against the Jets he sucked * and Losman came in and saved his bacon. Yet
> that still gets chalked up as a Tred win. If you think that Tred acquitted
> himself any better than Losman last year, you're fooling yourself.

I do think that Edwards acquitted himself way better then Losman.Being
that he didn't turn the ball over and get sacked liked Losman did.The
big
factor here is ummmmmmmm EDWARDS WAS A ROOKIE!!!!!!! I would't
say Edwards had a good year if he was say a 4th year vet.But for a
rookie
it was a decent season.I have seen much much worse rookie seasons from
QB's.


>
> All this is quite beside the point since I fully concede that JP is a bust.
> Last year at this time, people here were touting him as a "top-tier" QB and
> I called *. Now I'm hearing the same * * * and from some
> of the same * people. It's utterly comical.

I always said Losman sucked from the day we drafted him.I have never
said
Edwards was a top tier QB.I think he has alot of skills.Accuracy and
pocket presence being the biggest ones.Neither of which JP had.Edwards
has to
improve alot.This will be a big year for him.I'm not sure if he is the
guy yet.
Will see.


>
> So, who's going to be the backup for Tred if it's not Losman? I may as well
> suit up. Maybe we can get Uncle Rico?- Hide quoted text -

He can be replaced very easy by your average backup.

On May 18, 12:39 am, night wrote:
> Kountzeguy wrote innews:12eea2c0-c6e6-4a0e-a0c0-1d74804211df@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > You think I'm saying being a cancer means causing problems.When
> > that's
> > not what I mean.He will not have his heart in it.He will not be
> > helping Edwards
> > the way a vet QB that wanted to be the back up would.He will say and
> > do all the right things but he will have a chip on his shoulder.Every
> > one on the team will know and that will take away some what from him
> > and the team.
>
> Well, first I would not want a back up QB that *wants* to be a back up. As
> I said before, even Frank Reich, the consumate back up QB, wanted the
> opportunity to start, and he left Buffalo when that opportunity presented
> itself.

Well I want a backup that wants to be a backup and plays his
role.Many
older vet QBs are fine with being a backup and helping the younger QB.



>
> One: This is Losman's last year. He is not stupid. He knows if he plays
> nice, plays the part like he is supposed to, he will gain more interest
> from other teams. Now, if he had 2-3 years left on his contract, I might be
> more inclined to think your way.

I agree.He will do all that.All his teammates will see him differently
and he
will still be mad about it in his mind.That will effect him in some
way.

> Two: Again, JP could have skipped the optional OTA, but he has not.
>
> Three: IIRC, JP and his agent have expressed JP's desire to leave *once*. I
> am not saying he has changed his mind, but he did essentially say 'I want
> "A", and if I cannot get "A", I will do "B". End of discussion.' This is
> unlike the players you listed and others like T. Owens, TKO Spikes, and
> Corey Dillion who constantly and consistently stated they wanted out.

When your a good player you can constantly state you want out.When you
state you want out and no one else wants you,You have to stay.

Kountzeguy wrote:

> They had the same talent last year.Edwards had
> the better stats.

Statistically insignificant difference.

>> Are you talking about last year? Come on, the meat of the season was
>> in the first three weeks. Losman sucked. How did Edwards fare
>> against any playoff caliber teams? Let's see...New England - he
>> sucked *...Dallas - he sucked *...Washington - he did very
>> well...Cleveland - he sucked *...Giants he sucked *.
>
> Yes I am talking about last year.Look at the stats.The two QBs played
> almost the same amount of plays.Edwards had better stats.He didn't
> play
> well in some games.That's going to happen.He has to improve alot to
> make this a better team.JP played just as bad agaisnt playoff teams
> as
> well.Im not sure what your point is?Do you think Losman is better
> then
> Edwards?Do you think Edwards is as sucky as Losman because they
> have the same kinda stats?

No, and this has always been my point. Some (specifically the resident
lunatic, Bender) were calling Losman a premier NFL QB last year. I offered
my skepticism. Losman failed thus validating that skepticism. Edwards did
even less in 2007 than Losman did in 2006 and yet I am still hearing the
same * that Trent is the man. It's deja vu all over again. I am just
expressing my skepticism...again. Edwards hasn't shown me jack *.

Losman sucks. And unless I am completely mistaken, Tred isn't the answer
either. Even if he is more talented, he's not durable. Heck, he hasn't had a
complete season without injury since Pop Warner.

>> Against the Jets he sucked * and Losman came in and saved his
>> bacon. Yet that still gets chalked up as a Tred win. If you think
>> that Tred acquitted himself any better than Losman last year, you're
>> fooling yourself.
>
> I do think that Edwards acquitted himself way better then Losman.Being
> that he didn't turn the ball over and get sacked liked Losman did.The
> big
> factor here is ummmmmmmm EDWARDS WAS A ROOKIE!!!!!!! I would't
> say Edwards had a good year if he was say a 4th year vet.But for a
> rookie
> it was a decent season.I have seen much much worse rookie seasons from
> QB's.

That's all well and good. What choice do we have but to try and develop the
guy? None. The Bills looked for a bargain in the draft and let's see if it
pays off. Hopefully, it will pan out better than the umpteen other bargains
the Bills go after that blow up in their faces (notably in management). One
thing's for sure, though, the fan faithful have not gotten their fill of
this dumpster diving for the most part. I have.

>> So, who's going to be the backup for Tred if it's not Losman? I may
>> as well suit up. Maybe we can get Uncle Rico?- Hide quoted text -
>
> He can be replaced very easy by your average backup.

WE DON'T HAVE AN AVERAGE BACKUP. So...if not Losman, who is your backup?

Kountzeguy wrote:

> Well I want a backup that wants to be a backup and plays his
> role.Many
> older vet QBs are fine with being a backup and helping the younger QB.

Who is available?

>> One: This is Losman's last year. He is not stupid. He knows if he
>> plays
>> nice, plays the part like he is supposed to, he will gain more
>> interest
>> from other teams. Now, if he had 2-3 years left on his contract, I
>> might be
>> more inclined to think your way.
>
> I agree.He will do all that.All his teammates will see him differently
> and he
> will still be mad about it in his mind.That will effect him in some
> way.

Are you kidding me? What would they hold against him? It's likely that many
of them will go through the same situation at some point in their careers.
Do you think for a moment that any of these guys puts Buffalo or the
franchise over themselves or their families. That's a beautiful concept.
It's not in any way realistic, but it's beautiful.

>> Two: Again, JP could have skipped the optional OTA, but he has not.
>>
>> Three: IIRC, JP and his agent have expressed JP's desire to leave
>> *once*. I
>> am not saying he has changed his mind, but he did essentially say 'I
>> want "A", and if I cannot get "A", I will do "B". End of
>> discussion.' This is
>> unlike the players you listed and others like T. Owens, TKO Spikes,
>> and
>> Corey Dillion who constantly and consistently stated they wanted out.
>
> When your a good player you can constantly state you want out.When you
> state you want out and no one else wants you,You have to stay.

So if a player is good enough, it's ok for him to be a "cancer", but if a
guy is playing out his contract and is playing the good soldier, he needs to
be cut loose.

Wait a second, are you Tom Donahoe?

On May 20, 9:35 am, "Geoff" wrote:
> Kountzeguy wrote:
> > Well I want a backup that wants to be a backup and plays his
> > role.Many
> > older vet QBs are fine with being a backup and helping the younger QB.
>
> Who is available?

There will be many QBs out there before the start of the season can do
what Losman can do.


>
> >> One: This is Losman's last year. He is not stupid. He knows if he
> >> plays
> >> nice, plays the part like he is supposed to, he will gain more
> >> interest
> >> from other teams. Now, if he had 2-3 years left on his contract, I
> >> might be
> >> more inclined to think your way.
>
> > I agree.He will do all that.All his teammates will see him differently
> > and he
> > will still be mad about it in his mind.That will effect him in some
> > way.
>
> Are you kidding me? What would they hold against him? It's likely that many
> of them will go through the same situation at some point in their careers.
> Do you think for a moment that any of these guys puts Buffalo or the
> franchise over themselves or their families. That's a beautiful concept.
> It's not in any way realistic, but it's beautiful.

His teammates will hold against him.Just look at all the stuff that
came out about Tiki Barber from his ex teammates.



>
> >> Two: Again, JP could have skipped the optional OTA, but he has not.
>
> >> Three: IIRC, JP and his agent have expressed JP's desire to leave
> >> *once*. I
> >> am not saying he has changed his mind, but he did essentially say 'I
> >> want "A", and if I cannot get "A", I will do "B". End of
> >> discussion.' This is
> >> unlike the players you listed and others like T. Owens, TKO Spikes,
> >> and
> >> Corey Dillion who constantly and consistently stated they wanted out.
>
> > When your a good player you can constantly state you want out.When you
> > state you want out and no one else wants you,You have to stay.
>
> So if a player is good enough, it's ok for him to be a "cancer", but if a
> guy is playing out his contract and is playing the good soldier, he needs to
> be cut loose.

Let me break it down to you one more time dude.The difference is,when
good players want out they uselly go to another team.(I peronaly would
get rid of any guy that didn't want to be on the team)My point is that
he is the same as any other good player that wants out.The only
difference is he isn't good and no one else wanted him.When a guy is
talented it makes it easier to keep him.A guy like Lance Briggs is a
good example.JP has a low upside and he has issues with the team.No
reason to take a chance on him.He is a first round bust.No reason to
not go another way at backup.Because his days in Buffalo are over no
matter what.I would prefer to look at a back up that will be here
after next season.


>
> Wait a second, are you Tom Donahoe?

Are you Phil Donahue?Because cleary you don't know football.